My friend and fellow Nashville blogger Katherine Coble (along with her husband Tim) are embroiled in a proverbial "firestorm of controversy" over the events surrounding their unsatisfactory experience with JL Kirk Associates.
JL Kirk Associates is a "career advancement and transition" firm that employs a business model that I have never in my 10 years as a working professional seen before: they require up-front payment from the job seeker in order to assist said job seeker in finding a job. Kirk also claimed (to me, anyway) that they have access to "unpublished" job leads that give them an edge over conventional recruiting firms—firms that typically collect their fees from prospective employers, not employees.
At this point Kat's story has reached pretty far out there in the blogosphere; let me help you cut down on the information overload and point you to the most relevant linkage. First, here are Kat's original posts:
- Just Another Pretty Farce: "JL Kirk & Associates: My Story"
- Just Another Pretty Farce: "Success"
- Just Another Pretty Farce: "JL Kirk Responds"
- Just Another Pretty Farce: "This Entry For A Limited Time Only"
- Just Another Pretty Farce: "Text of King & Ballow Demand Letter"
- Just Another Pretty Farce: "JL Kirk Update"
My fellow Nashville blogger Newscoma compiled a fairly comprehensive list of links from other bloggers who weighed in on the Coble/JL Kirk dust-up. Here you go, and have fun reading:
The reason why I chose to add my voice to this blogospheric chorus is because last December (that is to say, December 2006) I too 'enjoyed' an unsatisfactory experience with JL Kirk Associates. Accordingly, I would like to clue you in on what happened in my case.
Here's the deal: In the beginning of December 2006 I undertook a search for a new job. Because my former bosses are exceptional people, they allowed me to advertise my resume on the regional and national job boards (Monster, CareerBuilder, etc.) while I continued to work at my (at the time) present place of employment. Pretty cool, eh?
Anyhow, it wasn't long before I began receiving telephone calls and e-mail inquiries from recruiters, or 'headhunters' as they are sometimes called. As it happened, one of the first of these e-mail solicitations was from JL Kirk Associates.
Because I had never before been in a position where I could feasibly use online job search tools, I was quite a newbie in terms of understanding how the recruiting world works. I didn't realize initially that I wasn't being singled out specifically by JL Kirk. Instead, my e-mail address was, in all likelihood, simply harvested along with hundreds of others and and combined in an e-mail merge operation with their form letters.
Let me share with you a batch of these messages. Please take note of the date/timestamps on these messages because these will come into play later on in our discussion:
12/04/06 1:45 AM
From: JL Kirk Associates [nashville@execcareerhunt.com]
To: redacted@comcast.net
Subject: Your resumeYour resume came to me through one of our partners and we would like to set an appointment to meet with you. Our firm has spent the last 50+ years building relationships. JL Kirk Associates helps place senior executives and managers in the best jobs in the Nashville area. We steward our clients careers, maximizing their earning potential and job satisfaction.
We provide unique tools and technology that assist our clients in identifying and pursuing the best career opportunities.
If you are interested in learning more, please reply to nashville@execcareer.com and attach the most current version of your resume and our office will call you to set a time to meet.
Best regards,
Pam
Executive Administrator
12/07/06 1:35 PM
From: Executive Job Hunt [CandidateEmail@site.careerbuilder.com]
To: Timothy Warner [redacted@comcast.net]
Subject: CareerBuilder.com: Your resumeYour resume came to me through one of our partners and we would like to set an appointment to meet with you. Our firm has spent the last 50+ years building relationships. JL Kirk Associates helps place senior executives and managers in the best jobs in the Nashville area. We steward our clients careers, maximizing their earning potential and job satisfaction.
We provide unique tools and technology that assist our clients in identifying and pursuing the best career opportunities.
If you are interested in learning more, please reply to nashville@execcareersearch.com and attach the most current version of your resume and our office will call you to set a time to meet.
Best regards,
Pam
Executive Administrator
12/19/06 9:56 AM
From: Nashville - ECS [nashville@execcareersearch.com]
To: Nashville - ECS [nashville@execcareersearch.com]
Subject: Your resumeDear Job Seeker,
This email is about real solutions for your career search. If you are:
• Tired of waiting for someone to rescue your career.
• Ready for real people with real career search solutions.Our firm focuses exclusively on professional career search and transition for qualified, committed individuals interested in making meaningful career transitions.
We cannot help every candidate. We will evaluate your needs and will only respond if we believe we can be of help. We draw from decades of professional career search experience to help our clients find the right fit.
JL Kirk professional services are most effective for professionals
seeking positions from the following profiles:
• “C” level executives/CEO/COO/CFO
• Senior and middle level management personnel
• Experienced sales and marketing personnel/sales management personnel
• Finance/Insurance professionals
• Retired/former military
• Educators/Trainers
• Production/project mangers
• Relocating professionals/spousesIf you are serious about advancing your career, reply to this email with your resume attached.
Member: Better Business Bureau, International Association of Career Consulting Firms
12/17/06 11:01 AM
From: nashvillejobs@jlkirkassociates.com [nashvillejobs@jlkirkassociates.com]
To: redacted@comcast.net
Subject: We have reviewed your resume and would like to make an appointmentTimothy Lawrence,
We are contacting you because a member of our senior staff has reviewed your resume online and felt that we might be able to assist you in your job search.
Please go to: http://www.jlkirkassociates.com/nashville/ to complete our free professional career assessment form and
paste a current copy of your resume in the box.After evaluation of your credentials, if we know we can be of assistance to you in your career search, someone from our office will contact you to schedule an appointment. Also, feel free to call directly to set an appointment.
Pam P.
Executive Administrator
JL Kirk Associates
5141 Virginia Way, Suite 230
Brentwood, TN 37027
615-376-4650 (Office)
615-613-0301 (Fax)
http://www.jlkirkassociates.com
Now, then: I want to draw your attention to the line in the December 19 message that reads
Member: Better Business Bureau, International Association of Career Consulting Firms
According the the Better Business Bureau Web site, only two JL Kirk Associates locations are members of the BBB. If you read their reports, you will see that most of them are none too pretty. And again, as far as the IACCF is concerned, only Kirk's Oklahoma City office is a member. Not sure what's up with that.
Another thing that stands out for me with all of the JL Kirk Associates solicitation messages is the plethora of domains from which Pam P. sent them. Attempting a WHOIS lookup on these domains:
- execcareerhunt.com
- execcareer.com
- execcareersearch.com
...proved fruitless, as they all make use of WHOIS privacy features. However, The Riley Guide Web site has this to say regarding execcareer.com:
Executive Career Management (www.execcareer.com)
This site has been taken down under threat of multi-million dollar lawsuits from the same executive career firms who are constantly cited by job seekers as fraudulent and/or unethical.
If you try to hit www.execcareer.com, you'll see that the site is offline. What's up with that? Likewise, execcareersearch.com appears to be a Web-based dead-end.
Only execcareerhunt.com lands somewhere, and that is the Global Marketing Solutions, Inc. site login page. Hmmm.
Check it out, friends: Red Flag #1 was the flurry of form letter e-mail messages I received from Kirk. These stood in stark, raving contrast to the personalized attention I got from other IT recruiting shops in Nashville (and nationally, frankly).
Nevertheless, I set an appointment and met with a Kirk representative named Allison L. on Thursday, December 7, 2006 at 9:30 A.M. Our appointment took place at the Brentwood, TN location.
[Side note: In case you are wondering how the heck I have all of my facts, figures, dates, etc., in order, it isn't OCD, at least to the best of my knowledge. I simply do not delete any of my e-mail. Ever.]
Red Flag #2 was raised when I arrived at the JL Kirk offices and met with their receptionist. I saw no trace whatsoever of this "Pam P." individual who supposedly worked as the "executive administrator" for the Brentwood office. Could it be that "Pam P." wasn't a human at all, but was a mass-mailing daemon running on an e-mail server someplace?
As I sat in Kirk's waiting room I'm sorry to say that Red Flag #3 made its way up the flagpole. I noticed a tackboard on the wall by the exit door that displayed a list of who I assumed were past clients of JL Kirk Associates (no explanatory context was provided on the sign itself, if I remember correctly).
In other words:
Tom N. Sales $80,000
Jessica W. Marketing $120,000
Wayne B. IT $58,000
The first thing I thought of when I saw this sign was "How cheesy! Does this company actually think that they can impress prospective job seekers with a display like that?"
My meeting with Allison L. was quite positive and pleasant. Allison appeared to be genuinely concerned with the state of my career. She took copious notes and asked a number of questions related to my professional qualifications, job environment preferences, and so forth.
I had every reason to believe that Kirk and I would be a great match.
Until...
Just before Allison L. and I ended our interview Allison told me that I would be invited back for a "second level" interview the following week. Moreover, it was critically important, she told me, that my wife attend the meeting with me.
You got it: Red Flag #4. As soon as I got home that afternoon I hopped on the Web and researched JL Kirk. What I found wasn't positive, to say the least.
I dashed off the following message to Allison, in the hopes of getting to the bottom of what struck me as a sketchy situation:
12/7/06 2:26 PM
From: Tim Warner
To: 'redacted@jlkirkassociates.com' [redacted@jlkirkassociates.com]
Subject: An important question concerning my candidacyHi again Allison,
May I please ask you a candid question?
Does JL Kirk and Associates charge their job candidates fees for their services?
The reason I ask is that I’ve been performing some research on your company, and Mr. Leipzig, unless my facts are incorrect, created JL Kirk from the Bernard Haldane company, which was definitely a fee-based career-counseling agency.
As you know, I’m a practical, up-front, honest individual, so I’ll tell you right away: I need a straightforward answer to this question before I can commit to returning to the “second-level” interview.
Frankly speaking, I was frightened by some of the customer complaints I have read online concerning Bernard Haldane/JL Kirk.
Thanks,
Tim
To Allison's great credit, she wrote me back the following morning and gave me a fairly frank response:
12/8/06 8:24 AM
From: Allison L. [redacted@jlkirkassociates.com]
To: Tim Warner [redacted@redacted.com]
Subject: RE: An important question concerning my candidacyOh Tim, there is so much to tell you in response but I will be brief.
First, Kirk himself was a client of Haldane when he was seeking a career transition. He was impressed by the concept “work on behalf of the client, not the employer—he wanted somebody that had his career’s best interest at heart and that would actively work with him hand-in-hand to get him into that ideal career position. BUT Haldane did not follow thru, they took money and didn’t do what they said. Kirk decided he would take that concept and do right by it. Our company is built on Christian principles. Legal battles and bitterness ensued, false accusations both written and verbal attempting to destroy what Kirk was trying to do.
Please make your own decision based on what you see and experience here. We are all very passionate about what we do. I believe that Kirk himself is 100% committed to each client we choose to work with. He will be glad to speak with you in person and answer any questions about our services, about Haldane, about your career options.
In response to your question about fees:
The purpose of that first meeting was to pre-qualify you based on certain criteria. We fill quality, high-level positions and so we are quite selective about whom we work with. I do not set a second meeting unless I feel confident that we can be successful in getting you into your next career position.
The second level meeting is more in-depth. We are not only looking at your transferable skill sets, marketability in different industries and you’re your level of ambition; we are also asking you to set some parameters for us (ie: time-frame, amount you want to be making, what you are and are not interested in), etc. If, by the end of this interview, we mutually feel this is a good fit, you can choose to engage our career advancement and placement services. All fee options will be thoroughly discussed so that you know you are making an informed decision. The amount is determined at the end of the 2nd meeting and I have no idea what that will be. The rest is up to you.
What ever you decide to do, I want you to know that it was a pleasure meeting you.
Sincerely,
Allison L.
Career Specialist
JL Kirk Associates
This was all of the information that I required to conclude that JL Kirk Associates was not the right fit for my job-hunting needs. Within 30 minutes I sent Allison the following reply:
12/8/06 8:50 AM
From: Tim Warner
To: 'Allison L.' [redacted@jlkirkassociates.com]
Subject: RE: An important question concerning my candidacyHi Allison,
Thank you for your candid response; I appreciate it very much.
My conclusion first: While I appreciate your time and interest in me, I have decided to pursue employment opportunities elsewhere.
I am not cocky about my gifts, skills, or abilities. That said, I am uncomfortable paying for placement services when there are plenty of knowledgeable IT recruiters in our Nashville community who are compensated directly by the prospective employers themselves.
The fact that JL Kirk and Associates is built on “Christian principles” is well and good. However, I am not particularly religious myself and when in my research I discovered that Kirk named the company JL Kirk to signify “Jesus Lord” Kirk, this raised more than a few red flags for me.
To be sure, I respect that JL Kirk and Associates has a “bottom line” to look after, and again, I’m grateful that you took the time to meet with me. Nevertheless, my path leads elsewhere.
Take good care.
Sincerely yours,
Tim Warner
After I decided to drop JL Kirk from my list of recruiter partnerships, I have to confess that I became a bit 'hot under the collar' with the Kirk organization. The "deal breaker" for me with JL Kirk Associates wasn't so much the "second level" interview thing and their insistence that Sue be present (frankly, unless Kat Coble's post came along, I never would have known what actually transpired during one of those "second level" meetings).
Instead, the post-interview aggravator for me was the fact that this Pam P. individual/possible e-mail mailing daemon continued to send me those blasted form messages as if I had never done business with JL Kirk Associates in the first place. That's not cool, y'all.
Therefore, I was compelled to draft and send Allison L. one final e-mail message:
12/19/06 12:05 PM
From: Tim Warner
To: Allison L. [redacted@jlkirkassociates.com]
Subject: Please take my e-mail address of your mailing list ASAPHi Allison,
Tim Warner (redacted@comcast.net) here. I'm requesting that you please remove my e-mail address from your solicitation databases immediately. For whatever reason, I continue to be barraged by your form messages (some from "Pam P.," some without attribution).
Your message do not provide an "opt-out" mechanism, as governed by the FTC:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/canspam.htm
I don't want to receive another solicitation from your company ever again. If I do, I will file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, of which you are putatively a member, and I will write up a "red-flag" report at Ripoffreport.com and related Web sites.
Thanks for your prompt attention,
Tim WarnerP.S. On a personal note, Allison, I have to ask you: Are you able to sleep in good conscience working for this kind of a company; a firm that does business like this in the name of "Christianity"?
I haven't heard a peep from anyone at JL Kirk Associates since.
Technorati Tags: jl kirk associates, jl kirk, katherine coble, jobs, career, recruiting, kirk, kirked, Kirk Leipzig, nit, nashville is talking, mta, mother tongue annoyances
47 Comments
I, too, went for the first interview and even the second last year. I, too, sent a similar email asking about fees and such. Unlike you, though, I never even received a reply to that. I’m surprised they even dealt with me at all, considering I had no husband to use against me.
The pegboard with the first names and the salaries cracked me up.
Tim, so proud to know you and this was wonderfully shared. I just hope what I said last night in e-mail didn’t make you feel pressured to share your story publicly, but I am certainly thrilled you decided to.
I also have to say it struck and surprised me how appropriate and “all right” this Allison person’s communications sounded, but the “Pam P.” thing and all the rest, so fishy and red flag-gy. I’m glad you washed your hands of it all and didn’t get hurt personally by the company’s lousy and shady business practices.
Tim - this is a wonderful coda to the Coble-Kirk saga. The ‘Jesus Lord’ bit would be enough for me to walk away, and I am a Christian. Sounds like some companies need a ‘table-turning-over-in-the-temple’ experience.
Thanks!
Hi, All
I visited this 9 Rules site because my boyfriend’s son-in-law talks about it all the time and I wanted to see what it was about.
So since I am interested in writing, I clicked on the writing tab and found the posts about JL Kirk.
I also am in Nashville and attend a networking meeting with one of their recruiters.
As someone who worked as a career coach for 3 years and who knows about the many free resources available to help people in job search find a great job/career, I find it deplorable that a company would charge people in job search and use tactics like these email.
As you say, if one is not experienced in the ways of the internet, you think…hmmmm…someone wants me!
I have found over the years (especially when working in a megachurch in Memphis) that the people who yap the loudest about building their business on Christian principles, are the ones who have the least awareness about how to actually practice Christian principles!
Best of luck to all in job search…if you need info about free job search resources in Nashville, there is a Monday night meeting at Brentwood Methodist Church that can help.
Karen
I’ve been on the job hunt for a while since returning from Peace Corps and am constantly frustrated by the scammers out there preying on people who are most vulnerable. Last week I attended what I thought would be an interview for a job only to find myself in a presentation of a scheme that required attendees to commit to performing work for free with no guarantee of a job or any compensation. I declined but there were other desperate souls in the audience that have probably churned out a lot of work by now. Too bad there isn’t a single resource to reveal these scams for jobhunters.
Well, them folks got me a job as a glue taster in a duck tape factory so they ain’t all bad!
Have they ever gotten a job for anyone? I’ve only heard from people who were turned off. Is there anyone who went through with this, paid and got a job?
(Full disclosure: I’m a Christian)
Ever notice how you can measure the level of despotism in a government by how many non-despotic terms they put in the country name? Like “People’s Republic of China”, or “German Democratic Republic”?
When people wave their arms yelling about how their company is Christian-based, etc. etc., watch out. If it truly was, they wouldn’t have to tell you about it.
If it truly was, they wouldn’t have to tell you about it.
Or pipe in hymns over the stereo, have devotional books sitting around and have little religious statues on the furniture.
As others have pointed out: If they tell you they’re Christian, they’re probably not. In a culture where the majority of people are Christians, and most are taught early on that Christians are moral and non-Christians are not, it seems to be a cheap way to buy credibility. Like TRUSTe verification, though, it’s a measure of negative value; just as sites that have a “seal” to prove that they are good about privacy are worse on average than sites that don’t, people who go out of their way to tell you they’re trustworthy aren’t.
A note of caution to some of you guys out there so willing to take a swipe at a “Christian based” company. In many cases, those companies are up-front in their foundation so as to ensure that some unsuspecting client or visitor or prospective employee isn’t taken aback when they come across something that is outwardly religious. Walking into an office to discuss a business deal & seeing a bible on a table & a crucifix hanging on the wall could take a Jewish person off-guard unless they knew up front that the company was Christian-oriented.
[Note: I’m a Christian who has had a perfect 100% record of UNFAVORABLE experiences with headhunting agencies and have worked for a Christian-based company that wasn’t exactly all that Christian & would screw you over in a heartbeat….but, still, it’s best if someone is up-front with their principles. You can generally tell if someone is being fake, and….come on, none of us can actually live up to Christ’s example, so there’ll always be screw-ups.]
I’m embarrassed to admit we fell for this scam back when the company was Bernard Haldane. About 13 years ago, my husband was fresh out of college with little job experience and no head hunters knocking on our door. We were naive, to say the least. For a hefty sum, they trained my husband with “proprietary” interview, resume, and salary negotion information you could find for free at the local library. They never actively sought to place him in a job. And several months later when he finally found one on his own, they called to ask him about it–I’m sure they used him as an example to fool other poor schmucks like us.
I was a sucker for the Haldane scam about 12 years ago. My wife and I were trying to move to another area, and Haldane said they could help. They promised contacts in the industry, interviewing techniques, etc. most of which they never delivered on. They did set up my resume, then made some photocopies on a dirty copier. Their cold-calling techniques don’t work in high-tech, as the front desk receptionist looses her job if she constantly routes calls to the VP of engineering, or discloses the org chart. When the few informational interviews I could get came back with “you need to go back to school to do what you want to do.” they told me to keep trying. I finally walked away from them and the money, and went back to school.
Their “Placement rate” is based on clients who continue to work their method, not us poor schmucks for whom that doesn’t work. The cold-calling they had me do works well for people jobs, such as insurance, financial planning, etc., but sucks for high-tech.
I still don’t understand where this time-share is.
I myself am a fairly fervent Christian, but I think it is both in poor taste and frankly a scam alert when some company advertises that it does business on a “Christian” basis. I want your services because you provide the best services/products at a reasonable price, not because of your personal beliefs. My advice is to RUN from people who lead with their Christian principles in recruiting you as a customer.
Donna,
Your comment puzzles me. What do you mean by ‘time share’?
-Tim
I’ve never been contacted by JL Kirk but I can say I received the same experience from a simulacrum company located in Huntsville Alabama. Their method of contact was the same as yours. They contacted me after I posted my resume in an on-line database. I went to the interview and it was uncanny. Kat was describing the same things that were said to me. They were speaking from the same book. I’m now very glad I told em no thanks and looked at other options.
It’s a joke, Tim. I noticed some similarities.
Them and they’s law firm sure is good at gettin’ free publicity.
Must be ’bout as talented as my English!!!
I, too, am a former JL Kirk subject. My husband and I went back for the second interview, and when the recruiter left, we looked at each other and laughed. My theory on the whole “you have to bring your spouse or significant other” is that it keeps you from offering the excuse “I need to discuss this with my husband before accepting any decision.” We told our recruiter that we didn’t make impulse buys that cost thousands of dollars and asked how long his offer would be good. We were told 24 hours. The next day, I e-mailed the recruiter declining their offer. He wrote back wondering if “we could working something out?” I never replied. Incidentally, Pam works at the front desk — don’t know if it’s the same Pam, but I assumed it was the person sending the original e-mails.
Like many others, I was taken in by JL Kirk’s presentation at a time when I was extremely vulnerable. I spent a considerable amount of time with a “career counselor” that never provided me with a substantial lead. They did, however, help me to rewrite my resume and offered training in interviewing skills. After I found a position following my own leads, I was effectively dropped as a client. I tried numerous times to contact them for additional help with no success. I finally emailed Kirk Leipzig with my complaints. This started a series of nasty emails that ended with Mr. Leipzig threatening to sue me. I am convinced that JL Kirk’s approach is a scam, and they certainly did not provide me with $5000 worth of services.
For those who think this is a primarily Christian country, think again. The fastest growing religion in our nation is Wicca, followed closely by Islam. Quite frankly, it’s time that Christians stepped out like JL Kirk and stood their ground with faith. When a Christian, a true one like Kirk Leipzig does stand up for Christ, the principalities of hell (i.e. irresponsible bloggers) have a heyday. It seems pretty cut and dried - if somebody wants a free job search, it’s right there in the newspaper classifieds every day. We can wash dishes or sell cemetary plots. If we are overqualified for such, we can hire a headhunter who gets paid by the employer…OUT OF MY STARTING SALARY. I was quoted 30%. My $100,000 management position didn’t look so hot after that 30% hit. Then I re-examined JL Kirk. 4,000 bucks give or take…they found me an executive position that I LOVE…and they counseled, guided, trained and helped me for TWO years. They spent two years working with me, always took my meetings, calls, or shaky nerves before an interview. If anyone else in any other field worked with me for two years, I’m sure they would have wanted more than 4 grand for THEIR work. Seems pretty straight forward and fair to me. A ‘fee for service’ business model…for the educated few who take the time to blog and took an introductory business course. This whole thing sounds like a bunch of disgruntled unemployed people trying to get noticed. Oh right…I’m here, too. Better get back to work.
When I first went to JL Kirk Associates, I had never heard of any company like them. My story is probably pretty common; I was downsized from an automobile maker in Michigan. My wife and I researched many cities and thought Nashville would be a good place to settle with our two high school-aged kids. We were right and wrong.
I had contacted every headhunter and recruiter in the area and had widened my search as far as Birmingham, Alabama and Memphis - and still unsuccessful. This is not to say that I didn’t have interviews, I did. I was interviewed by companies who were not prepared to pay even HALF my former salary, and given I possess a masters degree and twenty plus years management experience, the entire situation was demoralizing to say the least. One company I interviewed with was a referral from one of the recruiting/headhunter firms. When I got to the interview the HR person told me that indeed they were interviewing to hire an operations manager but they had not budgeted or agreed to pay ANY placement fees and if hired, I would have to “settle” with the placement firm myself. THE FEE WOULD HAVE BEEN $26,000!!!!! The HR representative told me that she had received a “cold call” from the headhunter who had nearly begged her to interview me! I was floored and angry! Under no circumstances could I accept their position, which was considerably below my skill sets and salary range, and I was not prepared to pay $26k!
In March of ’06 I was contacted by JL Kirk Associates and went to the interview. In one hour I found out more about myself, and why my miserable job search wasn’t working than I had ever considered. The interviewer was a nice lady and given my experience with the headhunter I was very gun-shy.
When we arrived for our second meeting, the office staff was lively and we were made to feel welcome. We spent almost 2 hours meeting with a Vice President who went into detail about their marketing services and answered all our questions. About 30 minutes into the meeting I asked if there was a fee and our representative answered that there WAS and offered to discuss it at that point.
What we found interesting about the entire concept is that JL Kirk was offering to represent ME, not a company. They were prepared to work with me to make me look better to a potential employer. The most astonishing thing was they would help me find out exactly what I wanted to do. It never occurred to me (since I was with the same company for over 20 years) that in this new city the world as my oyster. I REALLY HAD NO IDEA WHAT I WANTED TO DO! The fee for their services…$5100.00. In retrospect given what these people have done for me, I should have paid much more.
In less than 5 weeks I was already considering 3 offers! My career advisor helped me “find” exactly what I wanted to do, and it was a 180 from where I had been. Since I had never really negotiated a compensation package, I was clueless. I ended up with a very nice signing bonus AND a starting salary $11,200 over my former salary! I might add, Kirk Leipzig himself took me to meet the CEO of my new company over lunch at a local country club. The job was designed specifically for me. Without that meeting, I would have been just like everyone else…sending my resume for review for a job that didn’t exist.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that you get what you pay for! I paid for a service and resources I didn’t have. Over several months I’ve gone back to review and tweak my plan for the future. The people at JL Kirk Associates ROCK, and anyone who says different, simply can’t see the forest for the trees!
BTW – I’m Jewish and wasn’t the least bit offended by the Christian atmosphere as it is truly genuine!
krazy,
Please don’t take this ‘the wrong way,’ but your comment reads like something out of a JL Kirk promotional piece.
Heavily manicured comments, like this one, raise my Yankee suspicions.
Peace,
Tim
I’ll take that as a compliment Tim, thanks. I felt like I needed to talk about MY little corner of the world.
Haldane is a rip-off. They use every salesman’s pitch to lure you in and keep you strung along promising the “hidden job market.” They sweet talk you for an hour a week for six weeks, the rep you are assigned picks up on all your stated personal likes and plays on them. In my case I said I liked football and the guy goes on and on as to how he worked for the NFL and is playing golf with ex-players at Wingedfoot. Then he types up a half assed resume and at the end he goes “let me introduce you to Google.” That’s the sole sum of what they offered for $5000 and not one interview or even a contact from their “hidden job market.” And they target the most vulnerable. A con job rip-off and if I ever run into James Rafy, the guy they assigned me, again I’ll punch him.
I know several former employees of JL Kirk and Associates. They told me everything I need to know about this company.
I have been deceived by JL kirk. Beware!!! I tell you the God’s honest truth. Stay away from this organization or you will regret it.
I just posted my resume online. I was immediately contacted via email by the usual suspects, among them, a headhunter-type whose company name I can’t recall, and JL Kirk. I used the email address of the 1st nameless company to find a website. What I found was a bunch of links to other job-sites. What a joke. So when the Kirk email arrived, I was already psyched to go a-seaching on the net, and found all these posts.
Good for K. Coble for exposing the tactics used to prey on the vulnerable. Obviously, more than a few people have heeded her warning and learned a thing or two about the process. I, for one, am always suspicious of perfect strangers wanting to “improve my life” for a fee.
Avoid this company like the plague. I spent over $4,000 with them. They helped me put together a nice resume, prepped me with a few mock interviews, and told me how to make cold calls and unsolicited visits to companies. This would have been a good service for maybe $400, but not $4,000plus. Why did I pay for this service? Simple they told me that they would provide contacts and get me in front of decision makers. Once they had my money, they acted as if they had never claimed this. You be the judge, Do you think I or anyone else would have agreed to spend $4k for only the service provided? I know what I was told and this seems to be the status quo with this firm. They use very unethical tactics and flat out lie about the service they will provide to deceive the down and out. They do this in the name of Christianity. They say they are members of Cornerstone Community Church in Nashville. I am a Christian and this experience has made me sick. I am still out of work and struggling to make contacts. I have to pray daily for the strength to forgive. I also pray that others will not be hurt by this business. Beware, read the fine print. Don’t trust what they say.
Turbidium,
I’m very sorry that you were burned by that company.
Look, I have worked to great effect with several excellent recruiters in Nashville. I would recommend that you post your resume on CareerBuilder.com, Monster.com, etc. and the ‘good ones’ will contact you.
The watchword is that recruiters are paid by the prospective employers, not by job searchers.
Best of luck and life to you,
Tim
Your resume came to me through one of our partners and we would like to set an appointment to meet with you. At RMC International we help build relationships to assist senior executives and managers find the best jobs in the Denver area. We steward our clients careers, maximizing their earning potential and job satisfaction.
We provide unique tools and technology that assist our clients in identifying and pursuing the best career opportunities.
If you are interested in learning more, please reply to denver@execcareerhunt.com and attach the most current version of your resume and our office will call you to set a time to meet.
Best regards,
Kathy
Executive Administrator
Yup glad I decided to google this, and more importantly than you guys documented your experiences with these A$$HATS.
Thanks,
Jason
Your resume came to me through one of our partners and we would like to set an appointment to meet with you.
Montgomery Gray & Associates develops relationships with employers, venture capital firms and others, which allows our firm to assist senior executives and managers to identify the most appropriate career positions. We steward our clients careers, maximizing their earning potential and job satisfaction as well.
We also provide unique technology tools & other resources (Online Resume Portfolio) to assist our clients to get better interviews & entree to the hiring decision-makers!
If you are interested in learning more about one or more of our services, please send the most current version of your resume to princeton@execcareerhunt.com.
Thanks, and good luck with your job search!
Sincerely,
Rose Marie Norton
P.S. For your convenience we have locations throughout NJ and PA.
(Same Company, Just a Different Name.)
So where do I turn for help ??? I have posted my resume on many different sites, but all I keep getting are the same type of e-mails that you are talking about. It is very disheartening because I always ask the same questions when I am contacted by these companies and they always lie to me and tell they are different and that they DO NOT charge you a fee to help you find a job. When I research the company I find that are again lying to me. It is becoming very frustrating and I can’t seem to find an honest person to help me out. Can you give me any suggestions ???
Hi Craig,
I am sorry to hear that you are having trouble. Here are my suggestions:
1. Be mindful not to compensate too much in the other direction. What I mean by this is that it all too easy to dismiss most or all recruiter inquiries based upon a poor experience with one or two “bad apples.”
In point of fact, of the dozen or so headhunting firms with whom I’ve had contact, only one stands out as disreputable (I think we both know who I am talking about).
2. Simply be honest and up-front with any recruiters who approach you. Ask them “Do you collect your fees from prospective employers, or do you charge job-seekers a placement fee?”
If the recruiter fails to give you a direct answer to this question, drop him or her. Immediately.
Hope this helps. Best of luck in your job search.
Kind regards,
Tim
We recently noticed your online resume and would like to direct it to one of our affiliate firms. Our affiliate is a Toronto based career management firm that specializes in assisting senior executives and managers in securing the best jobs in the local area. They steward their clients careers, maximizing their earning potential and job satisfaction. By providing unique tools and technology, they assist their clients in identifying and pursuing the best career opportunities. If you are interested in learning more, please reply to toronto@execcareerhunt.com and attach the most current version of your resume. We will then direct it to the appropriate individual in the Toronto office. If they feel they can help you their executive administrator will call you to set a time to meet with one of their consultants. Best regards, Christine Whitman Mainland Careers
Wow Bill, I just received the very same “form e-mail” this afternoon from Rose Marie Norton. What a small world.
Quote “Your resume came to me through one of our partners and we would like to set an appointment to meet with you.
Montgomery Gray & Associates develops relationships with employers, venture capital firms and others, which allows our firm to assist senior executives and managers to identify the most appropriate career positions. We steward our clients careers, maximizing their earning potential and job satisfaction as well.
We also provide unique technology tools & other resources (Online Resume Portfolio) to assist our clients to get better interviews & entree to the hiring decision-makers!
If you are interested in learning more about one or more of our services, please send the most current version of your resume to phillyarea@execcareerhunt.com.
Thanks, and good luck with your job search!
Sincerely,
Rose Marie Norton
P.S. For your convenience we have locations throughout NJ and PA.
Please Use the following link to no longer receive emails from us:
http://www.recruitmenttech.com/email_optout.php?ea=youremailaddresshere”
Looks like they have added an opt-out feature to be in compliance with the FTC now (Oct of ’07).
Thanks for taking the time to post this Tim; you have done many job seekers a valuable service.
Gotta love Google!!!
Rob
Robert,
You are the best! Thanks so much for the heads-up on MGA. I will post something on those wiseguys tonight or tomorrow.
-T
received an identical email to Dave (#37)
on October 11/2007.
As a sucker of JL Kirk, it was a bit theraputic to read the testimonies on this site. Misery loves company and all that. My experience was exactly as those who expressed being taken, except for the one who said they actually produced some leads for them. I paid the bucks and they never felt compelled to actually provide a lead and never did. A total waste of my time and money and only added to my depressed state. The fancy resume did not get me a job. My own persistence and finding my own way did. I wonder if 60 minutes would like to do a story on them….
I’m a lifelong career counselor. These scams have been around for thirty years or more; it doesn’t take too many victims to bite when each victim forks over $5,000, $7,000, or, in the case of one Texas firm, $15,000. The results are the same: nothing.
The late Stuart Rado was so incensed that he devoted full-time hours, for years, to exposing them, but that was before the days of computers and blogs. Job seekers, especially seniors or ones who’ve had little success using “the usual methods,” constitute a vulnerable “market” for these nasty-nasty-nasty people. Their “persuasion” methods are downright demeaning and appeal to the desperate. Asking the “fish” to “mortgage your home; your career is worth it,” is not unusual. That’s another reason the spouse’s presence is required.
ALlow me to offer free advice: (1) decide exactly and specifically what you want to do and where you want to do it, (2) make your “product” 100%-attractive; don’t skip anything; get free advice from people who know what I mean, and LISTEN to them. I’ve given VERY blunt-and-direct advice to job seekers from 20 to 70 for 40 years, and the ones who’ve listened are far ahead of those who thought they “knew it all already.” (3) read the brilliant book, “What Color is Your Parachute?” It’s at every library. Read it 1X for content, an hour at a time; then read it a second time to do some exercises. Then give your brain a rest
before reading it a 3rd time. Then, and ONLY then, should you put the process you’ve learned into practice. Result: success. Cost: free. Trust me. I know.
I too am in the job market and just recieved the same form letter from Pam P. Thank you Tim for posting this experince, I was seriouly considering contacting them, now I know for sure I won’t.
There is a placement company named Transition America now operating at the former address of JL Kirkland & Associates 5141 Virginia Way, Suite 230
Brentwood, TN 37027
JL Kirk is still at it in Nashville. I have received two solicitations thus far and after going through the 1st level interview with Bernard Haldane a couple years ago, I spotted them right away.
Your resume came to me through one of our partners and we would like to set an appointment to meet with you.
Hamilton Clark International develops relationships with employers, venture capital firms and others, which allows our firm to assist senior executives and managers to identify the most appropriate career positions. We steward our clients careers, maximizing their earning potential and job satisfaction as well.
We also provide unique technology tools & other resources (Online Resume Portfolio) to assist our clients to get better interviews & entree to the hiring decision-makers!
If you are interested in learning more about one or more of our services, please send the most current version of your resume to memphis@execcareerhunt.com.
Thanks, and good luck with your job search!
Sincerely,
Marie Norton
We recently noticed your online resume and would like to direct it to one of our affiliate firms. Our affiliate is a Toronto based career management firm that specializes in assisting senior executives and managers in securing the best jobs in the local area. They steward their clients careers, maximizing their earning potential and job satisfaction.
By providing unique tools and technology, they assist their clients in identifying and pursuing the best career opportunities.
If you are interested in learning more, please reply to toronto@execcareerhunt.com and attach the most current version of your resume. We will then direct it to the appropriate individual in the Toronto office. If they feel they can help you their executive administrator will call you to set a time to meet with one of their consultants.
Best regards,
Christine Whitman
Mainland Careers
Please Use the following link to no longer receive emails from us:
http://www.recruitmenttech.com/emails/optout?ea=(redacted)
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